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PVP, Full Loot, and Twitch Based Combat

To get to the root of what makes partial or full loot in PVP exciting and all around a bonus to the PVP experience is to first look at gambling. What makes gambling addicting? Ask any gambler what the exciting aspect of the games they play are, it's the risk factor. You're risking something to get something. You might be risking a little to gain a little, a little to gain a lot, or everything to garner an immense gain. This is what gets people's adrenaline pumping even in something as simple as a game of cards. The same can be said for PVP, as it's essentially a gamble, is he gonna beat me or am I gonna beat him. If you aren't fighting to protect your items or take his, there is no rush in the fight cause it's for nothing except bragging rights.

Of course if you're going to lose items in PVP, they can't be overly valuable or things that make or break your character and require hours to grind for such as in games like Everquest or World of Warcraft. They should be player crafted for the most part and relatively easy to acquire. They should only modify your damage through a small percentage boost or through special effects like elemental damage or status effects such as slowing the target or inflicting a Damage Over Time status like Poison, not be the pure source of damage dealing. Because they are relatively easy to acquire and not the things that make or break you, death is merely a minor inconvenience if you planned ahead for it. You can stop at the bank and take out a new set of items, or you can withdraw some money to buy a cheap storebought set. Death will set you back some, but not be a character killing blow like if full loot was introduced into World of Warcraft.

How do you make PVP rely on the player's skill and not on his class, items, or levels? First you eliminate class and levels in one swoop by using an Ultima Online style skill system where you advance your level of skill in a skill by using it. Swing a sword at a monster/player to raise your sword skill, cast magical spells to raise magery, etc. To eliminate the reliance on items you make them not the major factor in the strength of your character as laid out previously in this article.

The key to making the game rely on the player's skill after setting the framework of character development as such is to use a collision detection system and make the combat twitch based. This means giving the player the ability to manually dodge attacks directed towards him/her as well as give more meaning to positioning and tactics. This is contrary to popular EQ-esque games such as World of Warcraft where the only thing that has a say as to whether an attack lands is the attacker's character skill and the defender's character skill in the corresponding skills. Essentially, PVP is dumbed down to timers and dice rolls, leaving the player in the background when they should be the most important factor in the battle.

In Asheron's Call this was done by using collision detection and a crude tracking algorithm for war magic bolts and missile attacks (bows/crossbows). The server would anticipate where the player would be by processing their speed of movement in a direction against the speed of the projectile (arrow, xbow bolt, or war magic bolt) and directing the projectile to that point. This tracking was crude as the player could through it off by changing direction rapidly sliding side to side while casting or performing actions, thereby throwing the tracking off. Eventually Arc war spells were added that were extremely fast and had no tracking, simply traveling directly to the location of the player at time of spell release. This caused players to need to develop new techniques for dodging. This led to large variety of amazing casting techniques (the way in which the player slid while spellcasting to dodge projectiles) coming about and creating tremendously fluid and fastpaced fights.

By having the ability to develop unique methods of dodging attacks manually, every player was different. You truly were only as good as your skill at dodging made you. If you sucked at it, you got owned. If you were great at it, only those as good or better than you could touch you. While player's items in Asheron's Call did in fact play a decent part, they were no where on par with the level of necessity that grinding epic gear in World of Warcraft is. The skill of the player generally determined the outcome of the fight, and that is how it should be.

yours," it is instead who is more skilled at combat and adds a new level of complexity and enjoyment to the battle.

Comments

  • #1

    Yes, it should also encourage all current WoW players that are looking for more PvP-based MMOs to take a deeper look at the game and our Darkfall portal.

    Do you think the game is getting too much, or too little attention ?

  • #2

    I think that this is a great article and will help people decide whether the game is worth more attention then it already has. Kudos to the author.

  • #3

    One more thing... you could loot reagents, and those are needed for casting spells. So you could either sell them or make very good use of them on your own

  • #4

    Indeed, the primary reason to loot people will be to sell their stuff. It's all risk vs reward. Do you wear the storebought set of stuff that costs you 1,000gold altogether and is very basic to kill people? You'll be at a disadvantage to the guy in a suit worth 50,000gold, or even 100,000gold. If you kill him, jackpot! If you lose, meh. His stuff might make his lower skill level not matter, but if you're good enough you can kill him and become rich.

  • #5

    Thanks for the clarification. I agree that in a game like Darkfall, items shouldn't be the deciding factor in a pvp confrontation, so it's good to be able to better understand their role and what exactly "full loot" brings to the table.

    Now that I know about being able to sell the items you loot it makes a lot more sense why folks would bother to loot you.

  • #6

    They aren't inconsequential to the point of not being worth taking. You can take them and sell for gold, which you can use to buy potions, storebought items for quick re-equips, etc. Also their armor/weapons might be better than what you have on, and you can bank those for another time.

    In UO you would wear rather cheap/easy stuff in situations where you weren't sure what you were going to encounter cause even if the other guy was decked out in the best gear, if you were good enough you could still kill him. You would wear your best gear in things like prearranged fights, or defending your playercity (in a game like darkfall) where being in the best fighting condition is important.

    Items shouldn't make or break your character, merely augment your character's strength to a point and give you more to work with. Just cause you have the best gear doesn't mean a guy in cheap storebought armor won't be better than you and kick your ass cause he's 10x better than you, but it gives you a better chance at winning. Player skill should be the defining factor of a pvp fight, not their items or character skills, they should be there to provide more options and augment the player's skill level.

  • #7

    One thing I don't understand is: What's the point of full loot if the items are going to be so inconsequential to lose that it doesn't really matter if you lose them?

    Why would another player even want to loot them, then?

  • #8

    Lag is a slight problem, and in Asheron's Call the game was pretty fastpaced/fluid and some of the best pvp'ers were Europeans, and the servers were on the west coast of the US (California)

    I will address lag in depth the week after next.

    Next week's article shall be on Open PVP.

  • #9

    Interesting.

  • #10

    I read the article, and as WoW player the first question coming up is: "what about lag"? In Europe having less than 250-300ms latency is considered "good" and I reckon that dodging in a fast paced game with a third of second of latency would easily make you "unskilled".

  • #11

    Still waiting for some regular Curse visitors that play WoW to comment.. that is if they can bother to read the article

  • #12

    Nice one Hubbell!

  • #13

    More darkfall news!

  • #14

    I support this post.

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